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Possible incoming buff on JK (JG mostly)

Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 12:19
by Valenth
Heya guys,

Not sure if I'm writing this in the correct forum, but I found something interesting for Jedi Knight (mostly Guardian) classes concerning a possible they may get buffed in a later patch. :)

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=160909
Hi guys,

There are many different subjects discussed in this thread and I would like to take the opportunity to give you some information on the topics at hand.

First off, we currently have no indication that any class needs a huge buff. Class balance is defined by the interaction between classes and changes we make to one class will, inevitably, move the balance towards or from other classes. Our data and testing currently indicates that the Juggernaut and Guardian AC could use some buffing up in two areas where we see them underperforming against our expectations.

Here are some of the things we're planning to roll out in the short term specifically regarding Sith Warriors and Jedi Knights : Mobility/Anti Kiting (PvP) – We agree with the sentiment voiced by the community that some Guardians and Juggernauts have to work harder than other classes to stay within effective combat range, putting them at a disadvantage. We intend to address this in an upcoming patch where, as a first step, Force Push will clear the cooldown of Force Leap, granting for more reliable in combat pursuit capabilities to the Advanced Class. Further changes will be made if necessary. DPS spec survivability (PvP and PvE) – The DPS specs on Guardian and Juggernaut are performing to our expectations when it comes to the ability to create damage, especially of the burst variety. However their survivability is lagging behind our expectations, especially in the later game, and we are going to start addressing that particular issue in an upcoming patch. Our attention to the class obviously won't stop here. Balancing MMOs is a never ending endeavor and we're in for the long haul. For example, we are certainly aware that the Marauder and Sentinel are very gameplay intensive classes with some of the most complex rotations in the game. While we are currently looking at quality of life and usability improvements to increase the class' playability without compromising the unique aspects of the class, we don't have anything specific to announce just yet. We do however anticipate that some of the combat responsiveness improvements (AKA 'ability delay' - more on that here) being worked on by our engineering team will specifically aid both Marauder and Sentinel.

In regards to PvE balance, any place in the game where our data shows significant issues with the balance tuning for one or more classes or specs are of course also being looked at.

For example, Jedi Knights will be pleased to hear that we are working on tuning the final mission in their class chain to provide a better, more fun and more reliably solvable challenge (see a post from another member of my team here). Currently a large percentage of players bring a friend to solve this mission, which, while social and often more fun, is not in line with our stated goal of allowing players to progress solo through their class arc if they desire to do so. We're also looking at some companions with a critical eye to improve their viability for certain role/companion combinations.

I would also like to give you some general understanding about approach to class balancing and how you can aid us with your feedback: Now that we're out of the first few weeks of launch madness, you will see class and combat balance issues addressed with increased frequency. Larger scale gameplay changes and features are more likely to coincide with major content releases, but smaller scale changes and improvements can be expected to become part of our regular update schedule. Statements that we hate a specific class or faction, or that we intentionally underbalance certain classes to make it less popular are conspiracy theory territory. We have nothing to gain from such an approach – we want players to pick the class and faction they want to play and have confidence that they are able to perform their chosen role in the game. Anything that comes in the way of that goal is considered a balance issue for us. We make our balancing decisions based on a combination of internal and external testing and metrics. We don't make decisions based on who is the loudest on the forums. Community feedback is valuable in bringing issues to our attention and even to highlight possible solutions, which means that well written, constructive posts are the most effective way to communicate your wishes and feedback to us, rather than petitions and calls to nerf specific classes. Please understand that balance issues during the leveling process are different than issues at level 50 and are handled in different ways. If you feel your class has issues during your journey to 50, especially communicate the level range and area of the game where you are experiencing issues to aid our investigations. Player versus Player situations in during the leveling process are not always balanced at every level (a mathematical impossibility), but we are always willing to investigate. Just because we haven't mentioned the specific issue close to your heart in a post (such as the one above) doesn't mean we are unaware of it or that we don't want to address it. It would be impractical for us to comment on all investigations currently in the pipeline. That said, we definitely want to take a more open approach in regards to upcoming class changes.

Finally, I'd like to acknowledge, again, that we do understand that there is a desire for players to get more detailed information what happens to their character in combat. We agree with those requests and are working on various ways to, optionally, get more detailed data on your combat performance.

Thanks for your feedback!

-- Georg Georg "Observer" Zoeller Principal Lead Combat Designer
I am looking forward to it already, the force push thingie and defensive fine tuning. :)

Re: Possible incoming buff on JK (JG mostly)

Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 16:02
by Blomsma
As DPS Gaurdian I for one am truely looking forward to this. We do die rather quickly!

Re: Possible incoming buff on JK (JG mostly)

Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:16
by Zenosis
HUm Sentinel was mentioned in their, but some of the class bosses are extremely tough or near impossible to fight due to survivability being alot lower than the guardians, not complaining just saying if we are supposed to be able to solo our class quests the Sentinel is gimped :P ofcourse Sentinel is very gear dependant. and the companion combinations Dps/Dps, Dps/Tank, Dps/Healer so can't use a tanking companion as we can't heal it, we try going with the healer we take too much damage for the healer companion to keep up. Well if we take a DPS companion things above elite wipe the floor with us.

Re: Possible incoming buff on JK (JG mostly)

Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:15
by Valenth
I think the Sentinel suvivability is a tad higher then the DPS Guardian's ability. The heavy armor doesn't tribute to a huge difference in dmg taken and Sentinel has a short cd (1m) defensive 30s max duration buff compared to Guardian.

Of course even a DPS guardian can switch into Soresu in these battles... Not sure if many people try this actually, using soresu form in DPS spec. When I tried it out I noticed it helped me a lot survivability wise while taking just a tad of a hit in my damage. (In the focus tree you still do a truckload of dmg with your criting Force Sweeps.) Imho I think the survivability a guardian gets while in Soresu is how it should be the standard to be viable as pure melee, not limited to that form. I think this should also count for Sentinels, at least to some degree.

Re: Possible incoming buff on JK (JG mostly)

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 12:52
by Amtath
Zenosis wrote:HUm Sentinel was mentioned in their, but some of the class bosses are extremely tough or near impossible to fight due to survivability being alot lower than the guardians, not complaining just saying if we are supposed to be able to solo our class quests the Sentinel is gimped :P ofcourse Sentinel is very gear dependant. and the companion combinations Dps/Dps, Dps/Tank, Dps/Healer so can't use a tanking companion as we can't heal it, we try going with the healer we take too much damage for the healer companion to keep up. Well if we take a DPS companion things above elite wipe the floor with us.
The best partner for the Sentinel is the Tanking Companion. Make him hold the aggro the longer possible and when he dies, you go in survival mode (using our two defense buff). Doc is good for normal mobs but when things get hard he tends to get the aggro or at least one and then he stop healing and dies. My T7 is being full geared as I'm a cybertech. Even though since Hoth he isn't as flamboyant as he used to be. Scourge could be an update but mine is way under geared, I have more armor than he does. He goes down way too fast.
Kira can be okay if there isn't too much of an opposition otherwise you get all the heat and we won't stand alive long. Another problem with having the aggro is that we can't move away to get focus with force leap. I'm also Combat specced

For my gear, I put everything I have in strength so I haven't much endurance. Maybe why I prefer the tank companion. As to me, I'm not suppose to get the aggro so better I'm better of doing as much damage that I can.
I think it's also a question for kind of gear the DPS guardian and sentinel goes for. More strength or a balance between strength & endurance. The DPS guardian while levelling is in a weird position as he will often be asked to tank in group. Even needing to create a keybinds to switch between the dps form and Soresu and keeping a shield in his bag.

Re: Possible incoming buff on JK (JG mostly)

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 13:19
by pata
I have no jedi knigth, but I checked the skill tree. I was suprised. Both DPS tree contain skill slot where you get focus, when you get hit. I think it is stupid. For a DPS getting hit is bad thing. Commando DPS (gunnery tree) get ammo because of critical hits or DPS vanguard (tactic tree) gets ammo by time. So during a boss fight where the boss hits the tank, the DPS guardian has disadvantage. They are really not good skills. I do not really understand the developers, why they did do this in that way.

Re: Possible incoming buff on JK (JG mostly)

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 13:46
by Amtath
Well the Jedi Knight start with 0 focus, where the Commando can start with all his big attacks from the get go. Also our Focus doesn't regenerate, it's deplete over time. Being able to get focus by being hit offers us the chance to be able to replicate directly instead to first build up focus. Don't forget aoe for boss fights. ;)

Anyway with higher level, the need for focus become less and less apparent. Skills cost less focus, the focus builder gives more focus or have a lower cooldown. It helps mostly in PVP, where the need to build Focus quickly is way more important. Some skill in the trees are more for PVP and other more for PVE.

On my Sentinel, through the Combat tree, I went from Blade Storm costing 4 focus to only 2 and Slash/Blade Rush with Zen on costing only 1 instead of 3.